Curse

nkuvu · May 05, 2009, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

I actually kept that reward for another of my 55s so i dont have to keep switching in storage

So you're skipping large sums of money from selling items, and then claiming that Prophecies doesn't provide money? What else have you not sold? Get any bottles of dye that you decided to keep for other characters?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

Guess i forgot to mention a couple things lol.

Yeah, I guess you did.

Vanquisher · May 05, 2009, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feathermoore Rep

I can believe it. The money you get is shitty. Thats why all the casual players complain about being broke. You have to do a little farming in order to gain money, or get a lucky drop.

Too bad they nerfed farming. Was so much better when you could just run Arid Sea wreckage/Lost Strongbox/Zealot's Griffon's etc.

Stolen Souls · May 05, 2009, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkuvu

Twenty two platinum for doing all missions and all quests in Prophecies, and not spending anything on armor or weapons or runes or skills?

Sounds awfully low to me. Consider that the -50 grim cesta alone sells for 4-5 platinum very easily. So you're saying that the entire rest of the chapter didn't give you more than eighteen platinum?

It's not "awefully low", it's actually pretty average, as most of the replies in here have said. Even if he were to sell the cesta, that's still 'only' 26-27k for completing an entire chapter. You can get that much gold in NF just by collecting the hidden treasures. Prophecies has the worst drops (since only about 1/3 of it is "level 20 areas"), and the worst quest rewards of the campaigns.

I'm still interested what a complete play through Factions/Nightfall will net in comparison. I can say with pretty much confidence that by the time you get off of the "noob areas" (without rushing/skipping stuff), you'll already have at or around 10k. If I had more character slots I'd try it myself, but eh...

tasha · May 05, 2009, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkuvu

So you're skipping large sums of money from selling items, and then claiming that Prophecies doesn't provide money? What else have you not sold? Get any bottles of dye that you decided to keep for other characters?

For an experiment like this, is it fair to include such drops? Such drops are dependant on player market which is notoriously volatile and unreliable. I'd personally consider an experience that took it into account the money from random drops to be bad and invalid. Saying "I made 130k from Prophecies cos of all the great drops I managed to sell to people" really doesn't reflect accurately the value of the campaign (I realise the -50 cesta isn't random but it is subject to player trading. Its worth a lot less now than it used to be). What happens if you go to Factions and don't get any great drops and only make 60k? False impressions, experience invalidated and therefore pointless.

At any rate I don't think a campaign should HAVE to make the player rely on knowing a market (which they won't when they start) to make money. I remember hitting Droks the first time going the long way round and barely having enough cash for max armor and runes, let alone 15k armor.

Wish Swiftdeath · May 05, 2009, 10:02 AM // 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluefeather

This is already my second post on this thread and i just want to say that finishing this campaign, Prophecy, won't make you rich.

There used to be a common QQ from players about gold, and the common response from players was to pick up everything that drops - everything, including 3g worth of item.

And for 4 years, that's what i've been doing.

I have not played any HM (in all campaigns), never played in elite areas, im not a farmer, i am only an average joe playing 4 hours a day for the past 4years. What i have now is 520k gold (used to be 620k but i purchased recently one item for 100k).

I've mentioned that i started a new character 4 days ago (but i checked yesterday, it say that it is already 10 days old...probably i spent many days in pre-searing). My gold is 11k (6k came from the sale of -50 cesta) and the rest are from loots. The loots starting from Drokan's Forge sells for an average of 90g and there are times i could no longer pickup other items because i am already full and will earn more than 1k for the loot.

So, i guess, your experiment is correct because missions and quests reward will not give you enough gold. But the drops are so plenty that can make you rich before finishing Prophecy.

BTW, i gold few gold drops that sell for around 200g...i think i got 3 or 4.

Every player in prophecy will be poor if they choose not to pick those "cheap" loot.

Firstly, four hours a day is ALOT.

Secondly 620k in 4 years is 155k a year. Otherwise 13k a month or 430 gold a day.

In terms of time spent/reward that's crappy, it's okay now that you have 600k but think about new players that see all these flashy items which you can't even think about buying.

ajc2123 · May 05, 2009, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkuvu

So you're skipping large sums of money from selling items, and then claiming that Prophecies doesn't provide money? What else have you not sold? Get any bottles of dye that you decided to keep for other characters?

Yeah, I guess you did.

all the dyes mats runes etc i sold. That was the only thing i kept for myself and put in storage.

Don't like the results? Try it for yourself.

Stolen Souls · May 05, 2009, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by tasha_darke

For an experiment like this, is it fair to include such drops? Such drops are dependant on player market which is notoriously volatile and unreliable.

I don't think stuff like that should be counted. I can do the same test and end up getting 6 black dyes. That doesn't mean everyone is gonna have the same results. IMO, only gold drops (since the gold will be very consistant for everyone), quest rewards, and merched items should count.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

Don't like the results? Try it for yourself.

People see the rather low numbers and automatically assume you must be wrong (which you aren't). I know it's pretty accurate because it's around the same amounts I make when I play through Proph.

malevolence · May 05, 2009, 12:57 PM // 12:57

reading this remind me how lucky I was in prophecies with my very first character , well actually I had no clue I was lucky till I realise that my mursaat hammer was very expensive then , if I don't remember bad I sold it for 250k in that time , and for me it was party ! it was the first time I had such gold ! hahaha it was fun

. Also when I merched all my dyes (including more than 5 black dyes) to the merchants in pre ascalon, and then , when I reached Ascalon I realised they were very expensive Doh ! but I learn it

I just guess , after all the drops reduction , and more people into the game the drops are not the same as before and you were unlucky in your run I see

, but good that you did the run , prophecies is great.

Cheers

nkuvu · May 05, 2009, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by tasha_darke

For an experiment like this, is it fair to include such drops? Such drops are dependant on player market which is notoriously volatile and unreliable. I'd personally consider an experience that took it into account the money from random drops to be bad and invalid. Saying "I made 130k from Prophecies cos of all the great drops I managed to sell to people" really doesn't reflect accurately the value of the campaign (I realise the -50 cesta isn't random but it is subject to player trading. Its worth a lot less now than it used to be). What happens if you go to Factions and don't get any great drops and only make 60k? False impressions, experience invalidated and therefore pointless.

There's going to be a certain amount of luck involved. Of course for a decent evaluation, the player should record exceptional drops ("I got X platinum, but I got 3 black dyes as drops").

There's also going to be an amount of "knowing the game" involved. Consider a brand new player. Are they going to do every single quest? Maybe. Probably not -- they may miss some. ajc2123 mentioned not doing anything outside that wasn't quest related. Do you think a new player is going to just do quests? Maybe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stolen Souls

It's not "awefully low", it's actually pretty average, as most of the replies in here have said. Even if he were to sell the cesta, that's still 'only' 26-27k for completing an entire chapter. You can get that much gold in NF just by collecting the hidden treasures. Prophecies has the worst drops (since only about 1/3 of it is "level 20 areas"), and the worst quest rewards of the campaigns.

Really? And how many people have done what the OP did? Play through without spending any cash on armor, skills, weapons, et cetera? Have you? If you haven't, then how can you really know how much money you made from the chapter?

I bring this up because I've never had a problem with money in Prophecies. But I also spend very little. So my point is that unless someone is being very careful about what to spend and what not to spend, it's very easy to buy sets of armor you don't need (for example, buying armor in Ascalon and then again in Quarrel Falls and then in Ventari's when you could go with collector armor or skip some intermediate sets).

I see tons of wailing about "Prophecies drops are so low" but since I've never had a problem with it, I have to wonder what people are doing. And yes, in my experience the 22 platinum sounds awfully low.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

Don't like the results? Try it for yourself.

Working on it. Started a new character last night, but I don't have the time to play like I once did, so this project will take me a while.

My biggest criticism of this is the fact that you provide a number, then had a whole bunch of "oh yeah, I forgot to mention this" posts. Since your character opened storage, I have to wonder how careful you were about the rest of it.

Did you identify white items? Did you sell dye to the trader, or players? Did you use a salvage kit only when you needed a crafting material? (and I can't think why you'd need the material if you're going with collector armor/weapons)

Out of curiosity, how long did this whole process take you?

Stolen Souls · May 05, 2009, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkuvu

Really? And how many people have done what the OP did? Play through without spending any cash on armor, skills, weapons, et cetera? Have you? If you haven't, then how can you really know how much money you made from the chapter?

It's actually pretty easy to know how much money I made. Take what I currently have and add anything that I spent to the total. I used weapons from storage (yes, -50 gold for storage, lol...), and tomes for skills. The ONLY thing I bought was max armor from droks (all other armor was collector), which subtracted a few k from my grand total of 24k or so. Ive played multiple characters all the way through proph, from years ago to recently, and the earnings have been pretty consistant for me...around 22-25k, with the exception of a lucky drop every so often.

Quote:

I bring this up because I've never had a problem with money in Prophecies.

I'm not really saying I had a "problem" with money. My point was (besides agreeing that the OP's test seemed pretty acurate) basicaly that the amount made in proph is signifcantly less than what is made in Factions or NF, and there is no denying that, really.

But yeah, back to my original point...adding small amounts of gold, or tradeable rewards to some of the proph quests would have been nice. ^_^

Lyphen · May 05, 2009, 03:03 PM // 15:03

I don't see why we're making such a fuss about proving this wrong. Fact of the matter is, you just dont make alot in Prophecies. I couldn't fathom coming close to the 50K or more I made in Nightfall through it's campaign.

The missions and bonuses don't reward gold, the quests don't reward gold. It's pretty rough.

ajc2123 · May 05, 2009, 03:09 PM // 15:09

No Nkuvu was right. I was too leinient with my post. One reason is this was done a while ago, another was because it was late at night. Ill post more details in THIS message later today.

Bluefeather · May 05, 2009, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath

Firstly, four hours a day is ALOT.

Secondly 620k in 4 years is 155k a year. Otherwise 13k a month or 430 gold a day.

In terms of time spent/reward that's crappy, it's okay now that you have 600k but think about new players that see all these flashy items which you can't even think about buying.

Green these days are cheap. You can buy 1k perfect green axe, perfect green healing staff. And i know there are more.

You see, gold in prophecy is not expected to come from quests/missions reward. ITS NOT A BAD NEWS. That's how we started 4 years ago and we lived by it.

You see, items back then cost a lot. Black dye sells for 10k for example, but there are people who can afford that. Why? because there was no shortage of gold. The only people who were short of gold are those who do not know how to "raise" their money.

You see, i can be poorer than OP if i choose to be poor (ie never accept anything and never pick anything). But that's not how this game is played. if the OP is trying to point out that there is not much money from quests/missions compared to other 2 campaigns, then, there is nothing to proved because we already know that as soon as they came out.

I do not disregard the observation of the op, but we already know that. But don't make it appear like this is a new discovery.

I hope there will be no new thread telling us that experience from Prophecy is too low compared to other campaigns.

nkuvu · May 05, 2009, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyphen

I don't see why we're making such a fuss about proving this wrong. Fact of the matter is, you just dont make alot in Prophecies. I couldn't fathom coming close to the 50K or more I made in Nightfall through it's campaign.

When I first played through Prophecies (not counting the last three missions, I left those for a very long time) I made about that much. If I recall correctly -- it's been years. That's why I'm questioning the OP so much. His (or her) experience doesn't seem to match my own.

I just want to make sure we're all on the same page when comparing campaigns.

I'm going to remake the character I started last night, since I think I bought some ID kits, but I'm not positive (and that character hasn't even left pre-searing, so not a big time investment at all). I also think I want to change from ranger to necromancer, I have too many rangers and not enough necromancers.

So for this experiment, I'll be using the following ground rules:

No storage. Don't even open the chest.
No gold spent on runes, armor, skills, or weapons. All weapons from drops/collectors, whichever is better. All armor from collectors. Skills only from quests.
Heroes are acceptable, but any gold received while unlocking those heroes will be recorded and disregarded from the total. Although I actually plan to just unlock a few, so I don't have to deal with (shudder) Alesia. It won't be hard to go to Eye of the North to unlock Ogden and Gwen and Vekk and just not pick up anything along the way. Also note that heroes will generally use their default skill bar, any additional skills for them will be recorded.
Complete as many quests as possible in Prophecies. After three and a half years of playing, I still haven't done the Defend Droknar's/North Kryta/Denravi quests, so I don't expect to do those on the new character. Same with Last Day Dawns. Any known quests skipped will be mentioned.
Any sale to another player will be mentioned. If I sell the -50 grim cesta, for instance, its price will be recorded. Additionally, any exceptional drops (black and white dyes, for instance) will be recorded.

Anything I've missed?

For the record, I can't think that having heroes will alter the gold outcome -- except it will make me less likely to want to jump out of a window. If I don't buy skills for heroes and don't rely on account-wide skill unlocks, having a level 20 Ogden along once I reach Lion's Arch (and from there, EotN) shouldn't alter things except to make the game a little easier to play through.

The account I'll be playing on does have the Game of the Year, but I won't be using any of those weapons.

I can't think of any reason I'd be salvaging for materials, so I don't think I'll be buying salvage kits. This will be different from a typical player, who will probably want to salvage for armor. This may alter the amount of gold I get -- if I'm selling items rather than salvaging, but not spending on armor... I'm not sure how that will impact the outcome.

Stolen Souls · May 05, 2009, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkuvu

When I first played through Prophecies (not counting the last three missions, I left those for a very long time) I made about that much. If I recall correctly -- it's been years. That's why I'm questioning the OP so much. His (or her) experience doesn't seem to match my own.

I just want to make sure we're all on the same page when comparing campaigns.

I'm going to remake the character I started last night, since I think I bought some ID kits, but I'm not positive (and that character hasn't even left pre-searing, so not a big time investment at all). I also think I want to change from ranger to necromancer, I have too many rangers and not enough necromancers.

So for this experiment, I'll be using the following ground rules:

No storage. Don't even open the chest.
No gold spent on runes, armor, skills, or weapons. All weapons from drops/collectors, whichever is better. All armor from collectors. Skills only from quests.
Heroes are acceptable, but any gold received while unlocking those heroes will be recorded and disregarded from the total. Although I actually plan to just unlock a few, so I don't have to deal with (shudder) Alesia. It won't be hard to go to Eye of the North to unlock Ogden and Gwen and Vekk and just not pick up anything along the way. Also note that heroes will generally use their default skill bar, any additional skills for them will be recorded.
Complete as many quests as possible in Prophecies. After three and a half years of playing, I still haven't done the Defend Droknar's/North Kryta/Denravi quests, so I don't expect to do those on the new character. Same with Last Day Dawns. Any known quests skipped will be mentioned.
Any sale to another player will be mentioned. If I sell the -50 grim cesta, for instance, its price will be recorded. Additionally, any exceptional drops (black and white dyes, for instance) will be recorded.

Anything I've missed?

For the record, I can't think that having heroes will alter the gold outcome -- except it will make me less likely to want to jump out of a window. If I don't buy skills for heroes and don't rely on account-wide skill unlocks, having a level 20 Ogden along once I reach Lion's Arch (and from there, EotN) shouldn't alter things except to make the game a little easier to play through.

The account I'll be playing on does have the Game of the Year, but I won't be using any of those weapons.

I can't think of any reason I'd be salvaging for materials, so I don't think I'll be buying salvage kits. This will be different from a typical player, who will probably want to salvage for armor. This may alter the amount of gold I get -- if I'm selling items rather than salvaging, but not spending on armor... I'm not sure how that will impact the outcome.

Only thing I can think of, is that if you are planning on using heros, I don't see how using a GoTY weapon could affect anything, if you'd want to use one. It wouldn't affect your earnings in any way. Would just make things a bit easier, same as the heros.

Shursh · May 05, 2009, 04:40 PM // 16:40

I find it hard to believe you only got 22k throughout the entire game. you must be very unlucky, indeed. i remember having just over 25k during the first crystal desert mission - and at that point i had already bought max armor as well as a couple weapons and numerous skills. also i mostly stuck with the primary quests. oh and i also sold my -50 cesta to the merchant because i didn't know at the time it could fetch 5k.

nkuvu · May 05, 2009, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Well if I get a nice weapon as a drop, I'd be inclined to use it if I wasn't using the GotY weapons. If I was using the GotY weapons, I'd be selling it instead -- which would change the final outcome by inflating the amount of gold I'd receive.

If you don't spend money on heroes (no skills, no special weapons, no runes for their armor), the cash outcome won't be any different than if you used henchies.

MisterB · May 05, 2009, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkuvu

I can't think of any reason I'd be salvaging for materials, so I don't think I'll be buying salvage kits. This will be different from a typical player, who will probably want to salvage for armor. This may alter the amount of gold I get -- if I'm selling items rather than salvaging, but not spending on armor... I'm not sure how that will impact the outcome.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Artisan

Salvage kits allow you to pick up more drops by converting them to materials. These can then be converted to rare materials for profit.

ajc2123 · May 05, 2009, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluefeather

Green these days are cheap. You can buy 1k perfect green axe, perfect green healing staff. And i know there are more.

You see, gold in prophecy is not expected to come from quests/missions reward. ITS NOT A BAD NEWS. That's how we started 4 years ago and we lived by it.

You see, items back then cost a lot. Black dye sells for 10k for example, but there are people who can afford that. Why? because there was no shortage of gold. The only people who were short of gold are those who do not know how to "raise" their money.

You see, i can be poorer than OP if i choose to be poor (ie never accept anything and never pick anything). But that's not how this game is played. if the OP is trying to point out that there is not much money from quests/missions compared to other 2 campaigns, then, there is nothing to proved because we already know that as soon as they came out.

I do not disregard the observation of the op, but we already know that. But don't make it appear like this is a new discovery.

I hope there will be no new thread telling us that experience from Prophecy is too low compared to other campaigns.

I knew this was common knowledge. What I wanted out of this was to know what a player who spent next to nothing and did all quests possible (cept for titans and FoW/UW) can expect to buy at the end of the campaign.

Not even a set of 15k armor.

mastar of warrior · May 05, 2009, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluefeather

(i put the gold drops to my other account to increase wisdom title)

Wisdom and Treasure hunter was made accountwide

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guildwarswiki

This title became an account-wide title with the November 13th, 2008 update.